Women Demand Participation Trophies for Being Women

Weinsberg siege

The Siege of Weinsberg via Wikipedia

Last evening I came across a piece on “A Voice for Men” written by a woman named Aine Hee von Sax entitled “The Siege of Weinsberg.”

It is an afterthought homage puff piece to men for fighting and dying in real war, and a heaping helping of praise on women as an entire gender on how, in one isolated recorded event in history, a group of women acted morally superior in mind and collective conscience.

In the Siege of Weinsberg a group of courageous, aristocratically-inspired women strategically positioned themselves to win an historical treaty based on their higher judgment and graciously benevolent disposition.

The Romans had been at war since before Christ and remained so until the very last dying breath of the Roman Empire. Rome ended in total collapse hundreds of years later, and an untold number of men perished.

And in all that time, Ms. Hee von Sax was able to heap credit upon the entire female sex as being “heroes” equating them with the only women in recorded history to have ever rescued Bavarian soldiers to safety by carrying them on their backs and out of The Weinsberg Siege.

This wasn’t an everyday occurrence during any war, but a once in a millennia anomaly. Events of such heroic greatness carried out by women such as these hardly exist anywhere throughout the throngs of history.

And instead of heaping praise on the unnamed, countless men who died in vain in large numbers, Ms. Hee von Sax chose to impress upon us her critique of a magic age in which some women saved a group of men, illustrating all women as “amazing and daring”:

“A touching true story without a doubt but why did I choose to retell it? Did I choose it to show how amazing women are, how daring and caring? Or did I choose it for its sentimental value, to depict a time where the relationship between men and women seems to have still been one of worth and love?

Certainly both questions I can answer with a bit of a yes, for women can be amazing when they put their heart and soul into it, as do I feel sentimental while revisiting this event, which appears to show there has been a better time once, without gender warfare, yet the true answer is still a very different one.”

Note: Always remember that it is a moral imperative that when presenting an historical lesson on men’s contributions to the whole of mankind and civilization through the past into the present, women must always be given recognition for being women simply by virtue of having a vagina and nothing else.

Jokes aside, the gender warfare she speaks of, or absence thereof during The Siege of Weinsberg albeit ceases to exist in times of extreme hardship and strife. The sole reason women engage in tribal warfare against men in the current age is because they are comfortable, well-fed and have economic security and the full backing of the State.

Women today are not forced to survive by men as they have the State and all its welfare programs and social safety nets in place upon which they eagerly and gainfully subsist e.g. affirmative action, alimony and child support, food stamps, welfare checks, birth control, government housing and so on.

Men and women will coexist in harmony in a “relationship of love” when there is a guiding force of nature that wills them in the direction of survival. When women come to depend on men and vice versa in times of extreme hardship to forge on a “union of love” it is because their gender roles are at the forefront of their survival and not in spite of them.

The male instinct kicks into overdrive to protect the women and children, and the female instinct kicks into overdrive to depend on men for their survival. This is our nature and as such, it is in our genetic makeup.

“No more being carried to safety, no more special treatment – women wished to be equal, and a time is rising where they will feel what it means to be an equal to a man, and will come to struggle hard to pull even remotely close to this, as quite frankly, they are not men…”

As much as she wishes to effectively cancel out women’s fluffy rainbow and unicorn delusions of being equal to men, she has forgotten that women have not and will never struggle nearly a fraction of what men have endured throughout time since the entire being of man has come into existence.

Women will never be equal to men, no matter how much nihilistic rejection and banishment the MGTOW crowd wants to curse upon them. At the end of the day, men are still doing all that is required to prop up women in every facet of their entire pampered existence. Men are forcibly resigning half their assets in divorce and men are being taxed to pay for their college loans, handouts and birth control—meanwhile men are doubly being socially degraded by women who use them to prop up their own narcissistic self-importance as Ms. Hee von Sax does so in this essay.

“But there is one more thing still the events of Weinsberg can teach us, and this is that in times where our menfolk are in danger, we have to come through for them.”

One significant point Ms. Hee von Sax has made that I can actually agree with is that when men are in danger, women have to come through for them.

However, the fact that the women of Weinsberg carried their men to safety is a statistically insignificant incongruity. The common woman existing in today’s climate Ms. Hee von Sax is pleading to to “come through for our menfolk” doesn’t have the moral duty, determination or incentive to save men from any injustice that is being inflicted upon them. Women today are instead rushing to the ranks of the other side as they’re abandoning men in droves.

Modern women will never emulate the royal aristocratic mindset the women of Weinsberg summoned amongst them to carry their “menfolk” out of danger on their backs to safety—they’re too busy taking selfies in their underwear and charging Louboutins on their maxed out credit cards to bother to care.

“Ignorance and silence can be considered equal to if those women of Weinsberg would have just left the fortress with their dresses and knickknacks, leaving the men to their suffering.”

Once again, Ms. Hee von Sax is correct in her assertion that our ignorance and silence as women would then be considered to equal that of the current age because throughout time, women have done just that—abandoned men who are on the losing side to join the winning side because it is in their survival instincts to do so (aka hypergamy). After all, German women had sex with Polish soldiers in WWII and vice versa.

A prime example of this is the widespread abandoning of men that today’s women determine are “losers” to defect to what they what they perceive to be “winners” (ditching the starter husband for an upgrade) is what women will do when encouraged and unrestrained, i.e. divorce—the subject matter in the latter portion of Ms. Hee von Sax’s piece upon which she continues to wax poetic.

I commented giving a short critique of the piece and unsurprisingly I was soon met with some vague hostility in the form of “hurt feelz and teh womenz are specialz” by no less than, you guessed it, a woman herself!

participation trophy

“In this special and singularly isolated case that barely exists contextually in any other instance throughout the history of the world, teh womynz deserve to recognized for being good people!”

Give me a flipping break. This is what women actually believe. They believe they deserve a participation trophy and overflowing collective praise for what men have dared to accomplish throughout the entire history of human existence. “Who gives a damn what the men did, look at what we women did even though we were hardly there at all!”

The more you pull the layers back, the more women like this nasty creature will reveal themselves. When the mask comes off, they don’t care about men and their constant struggles in trying to provide for us, they only care about what they can gain from these struggles.

If women want genuine praise, they need to go back to raising families, supporting their husbands and children, and caring about their communities as a shared moral duty—and they need to stop demanding recognition for events and instances of the past and present that have long since been taken to task and accomplished by men.

Here’s what I think of your participation trophy mentality, ladies. Sorry, but you don’t get to take away any recognition from men just because you are a woman and have a vagina:

participation trophy

In the real world and in nature, not everyone gets a gold star, nor should they. Ever.

  • I just wish to tell you quickly, I am sorry for the ban you received on that forum for men’s humans rights, although I can also very much understand the anger which led to that ban. Your ideals, you see, are all very romantic, but they are foremost very romantic – for women. You spoke of polished nails and high heels, and how being that pretty slim woman will make a man want to sacrifice himself. Yet I quote you from your own article above:

    ‘Sorry, but you don’t get to take away any recognition from men just because you are a woman and have a vagina’

    Exactly… You nailed it right there. To gain recognition, you need to earn the respect of a man. He has no duty to pay it to you simply because you are a woman. That is the ‘entitlement’ attitude of women, these men are fighting, among other issues. To gain respect it is important to listen to a man, and not just tell him how you think the world should look like. All your replies showed you had not listened to these men at all, but were trying to tell them how they had to feel and think, according to YOUR views.

    I am not cross with you at all, it is a common mistake we females unfortunately easily make, but it is never too late to rethink and learn. If you are not sulking now, feeling all mistreated, then I’d say go and read and actually find out what men of today think and feel and wish for their future. You want to be a female worthy of recognition, then that’s the first thing you should busy yourself with, and not so that you stand better chances to secure a male for your idea of an ideal relationship – but to prove you actually care for what men are facing, and what they suffer from.

    I wish you only the best, I sincerely do.

    • Thank you for visiting my page and likewise, for your comment. I was a bit surprised to be banned from Mr. Elam’s site as he is a strong proponent of free speech who also seemed to appreciate my critique of your work considering he retweeted my piece on his own Twitter page. I like Mr. Elam and respect him a great deal and I have been reading AVFM for some time. I have requested he personally reconsider my ban on the site, whether he will reconsider it or not remains to be seen.

      With all due respect, I’m a married woman of 15 years thus I am currently not out there in the world trying to “secure a male for a relationship”. I accomplished that long ago and I’m proud to say that what I believe in is one of the reasons why I found the right man and remain married to this day–my personal life experience speaks volumes to what I “preach”. I’ve spent the last 15 years of my life listening to my husband tell me what it is he wants and needs and I can safely say I have had zero complaints from him.

      I’ve read what men of today think, feel and wish for their future as well as listened to my own husband express his own needs and desires. And what I’ve found men need most is for people to get the heck out of their way and let them be men–let them do what it is that makes them men as reasonable human beings unique in their own right.

      They want to work hard, make a living (and not have it stolen from them), have a reasonably peaceful life free from too much hassle and they want to be proud of and enjoy the fruits of their labor. Men as a whole don’t want to sit around feeling sorry for themselves and suffer endlessly from a perceived victim complex–they want to go out and accomplish, build, fight, raise hell, bring home the bacon and live to tell it all to their great grandchildren. Men aren’t that difficult or demanding and they are adults fully capable of going out in the world and claiming a piece of it for themselves.

      I get where you’re coming from, but as I said, I’ve been at this a long time. I will continue writing about my beliefs and will hopefully continue having interesting conversations with people such as yourself who encourage opposing viewpoints. And again, thank you for coming to this page to express your concerns. You’re always welcome here to comment. <3

      • I would assume here that misunderstanding have amounted, one being your interpretation of my article, another the way your views arrived at that forum. Hopefully these misunderstandings can still be resolved.

        It gladdens me to hear your marriage is functioning, I myself am the product of a marriage which lasted for over 60 years, and I have raised 3 responsible adults myself, and even though their father and I are currently not sharing physical space, we are still best friends.

        In basis it appears to me, we are very much sharing views, going by what you have posted above (even though I really do not believe nail polish and high heels are the cutting deal 😛 lol sorry)

        Men face many issues these days, and it would be nice to see you adding your voice to their struggle. Men as well as our society as a whole need to be freed from the ills of feminism, and it will take a combined struggle to achieve this, but while the end goal of course is to create functioning relationships again between males and females, I can also very much understand that men do not wish to end the sole pack animals again. Our foremothers worked hard along side our forefathers, sharing mutual respect and appreciation, despite feminism having tried to depict a very differing history. We need to reclaim the truth about our value as human beings and the purpose of struggling together and in support of each other, but it will take time to repair the great damages that were caused. Patience I’d say will certainly prove a virtue.

        • “even though I really do not believe nail polish and high heels are the cutting deal”

          You’re free to believe that if you wish, but I will take this opportunity to point out that you yourself are divorced and you are certainly in no position to tell me that being pretty and feminine doesn’t work.

          I’ve spent the last 15 years taking care of myself, taking pride and joy in my appearance as a woman and looking great for my husband–it’s the least I can do to honor him for being a hardworking provider and a wonderful man. This is a real, tangible need for men in this world–to have a woman in their lives who is not only nurturing but sexy and hot as hell. It stokes and channels a man’s innermost masculine needs and desires. You wrote about The Siege of Weinsberg, I’m sure you’ve also read Helen of Troy.

          The world is full of confused people like you who despise real, unfettered raw femininity and masculinity so much that you seek to pathologize it and relegate it to some virulent diagnosed sickness–as if women wanting to be pretty and men wanting to hit the gym is some kind of horrible toxic disease. And frankly, it’s unfounded, it’s hateful and it’s thoroughly disgusting.

          Women like me take pride in my womanhood. There is nothing in the world wrong with that. And if you and your MGTOW anti-feminist ilk wish to really stick it good and hard to the feminists, you’d do your best to embrace tried, true and traditional masculinity and femininity. Feminists hate it with every ounce of their being and all their might as it is the true antidote to feminism.

          Then again, it is apparent you and the rest of the MGTOW crowd hate femininity and masculinity just as much as feminists, if not more. I guess that makes you feminists too–you all hate men and women just the same.

          • If only you’d knew who you are talking to…

            Let me just say I am known as the sweet princess and the angel (was even driven through a city in an open coach to represent one), and even now at 51 I still turn heads if I aim for it, and if anything, it was my extreme femininity which led me to leave, and I am not proud of it.

            Your gender role views are just as historically inaccurate as mine have once been. Most of our foremothers were not the incapable cute little girly girls, but strong women, able, who worked and fought side by side with their males.

            I wish I had known and understood that earlier, I may would have had a chance to grow up in time…

          • “Your gender role views are just as historically inaccurate as mine have once been.”

            You couldn’t be any more full of it–full of your own ideology. You couldn’t even keep your own marriage and personal life from crumbling and falling apart, and you have the gall to tell me my sense of the way of the world is ahistorical and wrong?

            Hate to inform you, but history and human nature doesn’t bend to suit anyone’s ideology, not even yours. Traditions are called traditions because they are passed down generation to generation. And the reason they pass down through the generations unfettered and undeterred is because they work–and work far better than this dismal, abhorrent system people like you now praise as “progress”.

            Tomorrow and the throes of history in the making belong to the people who show up for it–generations of people who build families and leave a legacy worth saving. People of the past raised their future generations and had immense pride and a sense of duty in doing so. And you’re sitting here telling me that never worked throughout history? You’re ridiculous and foolish.

            Your own track record as a newly reformed “extremely feminine” woman isn’t one that lends itself any credibility especially when standing on your soapbox preaching that society needs to be fixed. And your own personal failings as a woman doesn’t grant you any permission to dictate how anyone else should live.

            Lady, don’t you have any children or grandchildren? I’m pretty certain you don’t hence why you are online all day bitter and angry at people like me who don’t buy into your nonsense. Don’t you have some productive and useful way to spend your time besides telling other people who disagree with your opinions that they are wrong? A woman of your advanced age shouldn’t be divorced, alone and out in the world fending for herself and she shouldn’t be online crusading for and finding comfort in being a crab in the bucket full of a bunch of broken, whiny people who have no purpose in life but to play the victim role.

            Go to the old folk’s home and volunteer, do some meals on wheels and help drive geriatric patients to and from their doctor’s appointments, something, anything! Do something useful instead of telling other people how to live their lives, especially since your own life is nothing to sneeze at.

          • Hmm and double hmm.. for if you had read my replies, same as if you had read the article properly.. then you would not have to ask the question whether I have children, as I told you I have raised 3, in one of the above posts.

            This alone exposes a lot.. and all the time I tried to be friendly, and still I shall stick to that, even though you are full of personal attacks, and again jump to conclusions without any background information that could allow you to give you that insight into my life. Not angry though, just saddened.

            Also careful with who sounds bitter, and with who is telling others that they are the ones trying to dictate how everyone shall live. I have not once told you that your personal arrangement is wrong, indeed I said I am glad to hear your marriage is functional. What I however did say was these roles are not as traditional as you seem to believe. Where do you draw your line – is feminism now tradition, because we had a few generations grow up with it? And should feminism continue to rule our society, do you not believe in a few hundred years, it will be considered a tradition?
            In fact to me it rather arrives that you are telling me and the rest of the world, that it is your version of male/female interaction, and your version alone, which holds any value, and it is a version which banks on men throwing themselves into the fireline for women, because their women are all so pretty and caring. However, apologies should I have misunderstood that, but should that indeed be your view, thyen nothing caring in that for me personally, to expect a man to sacrifice himself on my behalf, just because, well.. I am female…

            In regards to Paul Elam I shall just point out that he has criticised a woman who is currently promoting chivalry, so while I can not say this for certain, and would not dare to jump to conclusions for his personal reasons to tweet your ‘rebuttal’ (as you called it) of the Weinsberg article.. it could same time be he wanted to underline the dangers of what many in the men’s human right movement call traditional gynocentric culture, picking your response as an example of that traditionalist argument.

            Yet, as I said, I would not dare jump to final conclusions, I do not know that man’s mind, but maybe worth watching this video of his, to get an idea at least in regards to his views of chivalry.

            Try to get him to remove your ban, so that you can return?
            I would not have any issue with that. I am all for debate and looking at all available solutions for our future, and I shall even remain polite in the face of personal attacks and insults *curtseys (something I even do at supermarket tills)*

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCdqgrBI_vo

          • I stand corrected, forgive me that I didn’t recall you mentioning that you have 3 children. As such, I will ask you this:

            Would you sincerely want for your own children to be MGTOW or cat lady feminists and end up alone and divorced at 51 years old like you are? Is that the future you sincerely would want for your own children? I know for myself I’d never wish that on my kids, much less my own worst enemy. It’s a very, very unfortunate and dehumanizing way to live.

            “I have not once told you that your personal arrangement is wrong”

            I’m a traditionalist living a traditional lifestyle, and you have said that what I believe is “historically inaccurate”. Twist your words to suit your agenda any way you like, but you are 100% deriding my beliefs and lifestyle as being wrong–especially since you claim you were a “former traditionalist” yourself when you later found out that you “were wrong in your previous life” and you are now “born-again and enlightened” as you claim.

            “In fact to me it rather arrives that you are telling me and the rest of the world, that it is your version of male/female interaction, and your version alone, which holds any value, and it is a version which banks on men throwing themselves into the fireline for women, because their women are all so pretty and caring.”

            Hate to break it to you sister, but as human beings we have urges, drives and instincts. Men desire women–feminine, beautiful, fertile, irresistible, young women and they will fight tooth and nail to the ends of the Earth to have them. There is nothing a man won’t do to have a beautiful woman at his side–that’s why men frequent strip clubs, they are porn addicts, and it’s why prostitution still remains the oldest profession in the world.

            Men want youth and beauty and women want status and resources. That’s the fundamental law that dictates that horrible, awful, unfair place in the world upon which MGTOW and feminists fail miserably called the sexual market. Not saying it’s right or wrong, but it’s 100% nature and thus, 100% reality. It isn’t fair but guess what? Life is not fair and the fact that you and the MGTOWs don’t find that PC, palatable or fair doesn’t change our nature as human beings. And the fact that you’re here on my blog telling me I’m a mean bad person for acknowledging this human reality doesn’t make you a righteous saint or a good person, it makes you a moral coward.

            Regarding Mr. Elam, I suspect he’s more of a traditionalist than he’s letting on for PC reasons, obviously. He doesn’t want to alienate his audience, that’s bad marketing and bad for business. And with his denunciation of chivalry I can 100% attest to why he would–chivalry doesn’t work on women in this dysfunctional mess of a sexual market climate we currently live in. Chivalry is the death knell for men these days, he’s right to not want to kowtow to chivalry as “gynocentrism,” as he calls it, in that regard.

            Pardon me if my counterarguments to you seem personal, but I take issue with people telling me that my lifestyle is no longer acceptable or exemplary in this world–especially when the people who tell me this aren’t leading by any superior or noteworthy example upon which the rest of us should emulate.

            You’re right the system is broken. But telling people to dismiss traditional gender roles is in no way beneficial to human beings whatsoever–otherwise the people who so fervently deny them wouldn’t be MGTOWs or cat ladies resigned to die alone because years ago a bunch of people who are as lost as they were told them they too should give up. It’s nihilism and it’s dysgenic–and it’s a guaranteed hopeless, poor and miserable existence and surely not an honorable one. Especially not one that anyone with all of their faculties would ever hope to aspire to for themselves.

          • I never said you are mean or bad, I only said it does not arrive as caring with me to expect a male to sacrifice himself for me. My own father was shot through the throat in the trenches when he was only a teenage boy.

            You have a very wrong idea of my life, I am in no shape or form lonely nor will I be lonely, and I still don’t think you have understood what I have been trying to say. I am not against relationships at all, I am in fact all for it (although currently I am very glad to be ‘single’). However, what I wish is to explore the best basis for men and women, where it is a more equal affair, more like we have seen in the past, not the romantic past, but the actual together for survival past. If anything, I personally believe we need to find ways to get back to that, not knights and ladies, not feminism hatred – but able men and women who will once again shape their destiny together, standing shoulder by shoulder, and I think you will find most in the men’s human right movement are interested in exploring the same, namely what set-up can we have in the future, after this mess is cleared up.

            You excuse your personal attacks on me by saying you take issue with people telling you what lifestyle is no longer acceptable, yet I mentioned I believed there we misunderstandings between us, as well that I think we share many views.

            I do not like to exchange under conditions where others find it okay to try hurt another personally, nor do I have to subject myself to that, and thus I shall withdraw from here and continue to develop my thoughts else where.

            As stated before, I wish you only the best, I honestly do, and also as I have said before, I understand you more than you seem to see, alas your sister.. I am not…

          • As I said, you don’t get to dictate anything to anybody until you start setting a positive example of what you believe people should do in lieu of just providing lip service and regurgitating feelgood cliches about how humanity is in big trouble and needs to be fixed. Tend your own garden before you start telling other people how to grow theirs.

          • gizzard of oz

            >Don’t get to dictate to anyone until you yourself are a paragon of virtue…
            So a drug addict can’t tell women that aborting their baby is a crime that ends a defenceless life, or that murder is wrong?

  • Tooj

    Ladies, you both have good things to say. My concern is AVfM itself. It appears that many of the men who comment there want to speak of MGTOW and such, but the moment a female shows the slightest inkling of actual kindness that is out of the RadFem norm of the day, they lose all sense of perspective and sanity. MGTOW is an abnormal reaction to an abnormal situation in and of itself; it is not in any of our natures to be hermits.

    When it comes to the political ground unfortunately morality does not come into the picture and you will find many “Activist” sources are willing to make a deal with the devil in order to acquire votes. This is not unlike the politicians in America that are happy to mortgage America’s future with freebies and benefits to retain a voting bloc. Men’s rights are not an issue for me, but bear with me. I am more concerned with equal rights, as every special accolade we have to award women for being women shows that special treatment is demanded by them. This, I believe was the thrust of this blog topic.

    For every Medal of Honor winner among men, there are hundreds upon thousands of the dead. Nearly everyone would be hard pressed to remember a single name outside of their own heritage, but they died nonetheless.

    I do not find the reception you received at AVfM as all that different. Try mentioning that homosexuality is not normal or natural…

    • You’re right. The commenters at AVFM are just as PC and censor-happy as their feminist counterparts–which tends to be part and parcel to the MGTOW crowd. I liken them a lot to SJWs of a different ideological flavor but the exactly same stripe–and they are just as hateful. I was being blasted by these people who were undoubtedly salty and triggered, not to mention the ban hammer was leveled on me, mind you, not for swearing, not for verbally assaulting anyone but for pointing out the truth. The truth is being censored like gangbusters these days by people like them who are too afraid to face it.

      Mr. Elam himself is a staunch supporter of free speech. I like and respect him very much and he actually read my essay and retweeted it. I wish I could say as much about his supporters who wish to end all discussion by censoring. They are Feminists/SJWs 2.0.

      And indeed, whatever you do, don’t talk about normal, traditional gender roles or disavow homosexuality in any way. They’re liable to witch hunt and tar and feather you just like the SJWs they are.

    • I am not in full agreement with this, also due to the fact that I myself have been a ‘traditionalist’ until actually very recently, the reason why I can understand the writer of this blog, yet I have come to view issues in a differing light. My article was never intended to lift the women of today out of their miserable shame of failure, but rather to show we once did know differing times, and we very clearly did, but that since then much has changed, which also led to men carrying most of the heavy burdens for far too long now.

      Feminism as well as traditionalists have been cherry-picking from cultures and societies, to support their preferences, and in all this mess we have come to lose sight of what ‘together’ truly meant for most of human history. Of course there is one gender specific role we can not deny, which is the bearing of children, but if one delves into history, we find that the bearing of children did not hinder women to go to battle. Boudica and all the women who fought in her army, surely would have a story or two to tell us about their armed struggle against the Roman invaders, to name but one example, and there are many more. Women were not helpless little creatures, but contributed to human societies in many ways, struggling shoulder to shoulder with their men on a daily basis. I reject the notion of high heeled females with polished nails as our ideals to return ‘back’ to. Our foremothers had rough hands. No modern technology ready to aid them, but instead helped with the work in the fields, carried and dragged, and knew well when the sun went down what they had done to help their men to keep family and community alive.

      The women of Weinsberg were not a rarity at all, just the specific event has certainly not been common. Often the enemy did not show mercy, and women and children were slaughtered just as their men were, when gates finally broke, or if not, it nonetheless would rarely have led to smiles and cheers…

      We need to stop arguing and instead have to go in search of the truth. We need to find ways to redefine our importance as human beings, in an environment which does not challenge us any more as it once did. The struggle for survival did provide us with the means to form strong bonds, as men and women had need for each other, and jointly for their communities. Modern times have uprooted us more and more. It is not just feminism which is the issue here, but neither feminism, nor a traditional gender role belief, which ignores most of our human history and thus nature, are helping us to find either back – or a truly new way.

      • Tooj

        Oh, I agree since I came from Iowa farming families. The ladies were no shrinking violets. As I said you had much to say and my issue is with the nearly dying of thirst response you get for merely being a woman who exhibits common sense.

        So, as soon as you write a sensible article regarding how women used to be you are hailed as the next best thing since sliced bread. I think we can both agree that things work best when men and women work together. Today with the lack of sheer survival needs compared to the age you wrote of, I think you can also say that your counterpart here also had a good point of “Be supportive rather than combative”.

        • I think the article quite clearly states that women need to support men, and I have pointed out that I believe there are agreements as well as misunderstandings between me and the owner of this specific site.

          However, what I do not agree with, was definitely this, which is a quote taken from the other site.
          —–
          The New Fem @ Peter Wright • a day ago
          What is nowadays lambasted as “old-fashioned” traditional gender roles that have been prized throughout women’s existence since the beginning of time itself — i.e. women returning to lasting marriages, child-rearing, and cooking world class cuisine and providing sustenance for their families. Also having a thin, feminine physique, taking pride in being beautiful and feminine while adorned with long hair, polished nails, and high-heeled shoes and being sweet, charming, nurturing and supportive to our men.

          These are the feminine attributes men cherish — this is what they will ultimately fight for as they did in battles like The Siege of Weinsberg. Women like that hardly exist anymore, it is my hope that they will again someday.

          *

          The New Fem @ Áine Hee von Sax • 21 hours ago
          Never implied anything of the sort. However, throughout the history of mankind it has always been men’s responsibility to uphold order in every civilization. Maintaining order often times requires doing awful, hideous, yucky things like going to war (you wrote about it at length in your essay). War is something that women have never partaken in collectively nor should they. Women are the givers of life, the precious vessels and nurturers of our unborn — men sacrifice their lives to protect them to save their progeny, their lasting legacy. That’s the way of the world and human nature, always has been and always will be.

          You don’t have to manipulate men to “walk to the slaughter”. They do it as a moral duty and to honor what is sacred to them — their people, their culture, their kin and their traditions. Men fight for these things because they know they have to for no one else is going to do it. Certainly not women, as I said nor should they.

          A) This is not the kind of woman on the ground I see when I look back into history.
          B) Women in the past HAVE participated in warfare, and more and more evidence in regards to this is being revealed. This makes me proud to be female after all, not because I hail war, I am totally against it, but I am glad women of the past did not just blindly by default accept that only their men were doing the hardship and the dying, but went to support them indeed.
          C) I do not like duty and honour talk when it comes to the lives of others. I feel it is not my place to say whose life is worth more, that of a man or a woman, plus I know if the man I have spent most of my life with, and who is still my best friend and due to be here in 2 weeks, to get a break from his work overload, as I worry for him as my friend; would be called to war, I’d wish to be there right beside him, and the same would go for our sons. I decided I did not wish to share permanent space with him any more, due to reasons of my own, but I could not bear to imagine he’d be expected to just make the sacrifice, while I sit safe and warm. I would have also gone down with him on the Titanic, and I still would today.

          As for the men on AVFM, if anything, the reaction to that article shows how bad and painful things have gotten for men, that just the picking of a single event in history (by far not the only one where women stood with their men, but it handed itself so well to the graphical burden part I wished to highlight), touched them so very much. If anything, to me it shows how deeply men can feel and can hurt, and that they deserve to be treated with the same respect and care as the ‘precious vessels’.

          I shall take my leave from this now, as I stated elsewhere already, but just wished to be polite and answer you still. All the best to you as well, and hope we all will see a better future, where no arguing is needed any more, but men and women have found their new way to togetherness, what ever that way may shall turn out to be.

          • Tooj

            Be well. I certainly hope your view of AVfM is correct, but I won’t be holding my breath to find out. I’m fortunate to already be with a woman who did not have to be convinced that I am as human as she is and that it makes me no less male. I don’t wait around for the wind to blow me in a new direction based upon what a warped ideology produces, so I don’t sweat feminism. When one gives it power, that is exactly what one does.

          • I’m sure men around the world need a good, strong, feminist like you to feel sorry for them. I guess it makes you feel important and special that you get to pity and patronize men and treat them like poor wittle baby manchildren that need you to save from themselves because you think they are too helpless and incapable.

            That’s laughable and absurd. And you’re still here soapboxing and virtue signaling claiming you’re “ready to die alongside them in battle if only you could, you would” but instead you’re sitting at home comfortably, dry, warm and well-fed using all the technology that MEN AND ONLY MEN have invented through the past onto the present. That’s right, your computer, your internet, the house you live in, the streets you drive on and the water that comes out of your faucet where you should be in the kitchen making a sandwich were all invented, built and maintained by, you guessed it, MEN.

            MEN have provided everything for women. You wouldn’t even exist if wasn’t for men giving you all the necessities you need in order to even survive–your food, shelter, electricity, heat, plumbing, lights and refrigerator all came from MEN. They are the producers of everything you own, while you sit there whining and doing absolutely nothing useful at all.

            Like I said before, give me a flipping break. Women aren’t dying on the frontline next to men by the millions. They never have throughout history and they never will. And you certainly don’t get a cookie for using their misfortunes to cast a spotlight on your golden vagina while casting them as a backdrop to demand credit for things you haven’t accomplished and never will accomplish. Get it a rest, you are nobody.

          • Ah, this is just too priceless to miss, have to come back to this one last time.

            No, I do not feel important, and in fact as I said before, we agree on many points. This is the true irony here, yet you have persistently either ignored or misinterpreted me over and over. I don’t need spotlights in any shape or form, in fact I grew up with fame in my family as part of my childhood, and hated it and deliberately have since avoided everything to do with it. I was asked to contribute through articles to that site, and thus I sat down and have given it a try. Men asked me, men who told me it is important for females to not remain silent. When I said I can hardly see how I can help, they told me women could do heaps, and that writing for the site would be part of it.

            You keep spewing personal aggressive attacks, and I am not sure how feminine I feel that is, but if it’s right for you and your husband, I am happy to accept that it is. My own fault I did not listen to the men on that site, their opinion of you, and it’s punishing me for my diverting from my own personal belief that is it always good to listen to men. They clearly again proved they were right and generally know best 🙂

            Take care, and don’t trip in those high heels and hit a wall by falling. The pretty face destroyed clearly would spell doom, as you say it is important for your relationship to be hot and sexy.

          • “No I do not feel important”

            While you go onto brag about how you come from fame and were famous in your childhood.

            “You keep spewing personal aggressive attacks and I’m not sure how feminine I feel that is”

            You claim you want equality and yet you are a delicate little flower that can’t handle any criticism? Either put your knickers on and take it like the strong country farm woman you always were and deal with it and accept the equality you demand, or you are a dainty little woman–you don’t get to be both.

            “My own fault I did not listen to the men on that site, their opinion of you, and it’s punishing me for my diverting from my own personal belief that is it always good to listen to men. They clearly again proved they were right and generally know best.”

            See? As it turns out, you still need a man to tell you (the strong equal woman) what to do because you can’t figure things out on your own. So much for equality and being the big independent strong woman.

          • Oh for crying out loud, you really have not understood it, have you. It’s all about power for you, it seems, and equal gets equated to ‘the same’.

            And again it’s happening – I said I had fame in my family, not that I as a child was famous. Learn to read, honestly *rolls eyes and walks away*

          • I understood everything perfectly. You’re a hypocrite, through and through. You claim to be strong, independent and ready to go to war and fight and die alongside men when you can’t even handle a little criticism? Doesn’t sound very strong and independent to me, sounds like the typical helpless little crybaby woman.

            And you still had to mention your alleged fame AGAIN because you think it makes you so important and special. How pathetic. Go tell someone who actually gives a damn.

          • *walks back and swallows the bait, chokes a bit, then sighs*

            Let me first of all apologize should I at times have given you the feeling that I have attacked you personally, or that I have attacked the details of your personal life. Nothing could be further from what I wished to do.

            Now I shall one more time try explain my own personal view, uncertain whether we did in fact misunderstand each other, but even if not, this nonetheless is my view, critic on it or not. No one forces you to adopt this view, if I ever came over as trying to force it on you, then apologies for that too.

            Through out my life I held the firm believe that ‘traditional’ gender specific roles where good. Men in my previous world view were always meant to be the protectors as well as the providers, the leaders, while women were the followers and the sweet nurturing beings who spend their existence on working to make the home a place full of love and warmth and raise the little ones. This is the set-up I was born into and on which I modelled my own narrative. It was the life I wanted for my self, the life I as a female felt entitled to, as well that I felt a man had a born ‘right’ to his role too.

            What I have come to feel I failed to recognize, is that not every man considers these roles as positive, and that ‘right’ can rather end meaning ‘duty’. Some men will love the set-up, other men might enjoy aspects of it. Some men find it corresponds with their own individual nature, and they will embrace and thrive in this set-up to their fullest, other men can end feeling overwhelmed by the expectations placed on them. Not every man is born the same, because they are humans, as is not every woman born the same, as they are humans too. Some men are physically stronger, and they will be able to shoulder a physical weight with ease, while another man could be struggling, yet might find it hard to ask for help, as he may feels he could be seen as a ‘lesser man’ if he shows a ‘weakness’.

            Despite feminism, a lot of what we call ‘traditional’ ideals are very much still active. They sit embedded in us, as I personally believe, not because they were placed there by nature itself, but because through parts of history we subscribed to them culturally. Boys don’t cry. Girls are more sensitive than boys. Boys will rise in the face of danger to protect girl. Girl needs to be protected by boy because she is too weak to do any protecting herself. Lots and lots of these stereo typical ideas/ideals.

            What I have come to find in my own life, is that this places a lot of pressure especially on males, to perform according to a set of duties and responsibilities that way outweigh the duties and responsibilities of a female. This, I believe, is what men’s human rights are trying to highlight aside from trying to point out that feminism has pushed them even further down to the bottom of value and importance in our society. Man has to fulfill those stereo typical duties and responsibilities to be graciously rewarded our respect and love.

            As almost all human beings long to be respected and loved, men have tried to live up to all those expectations placed on them, which even included dying without complains on battlefields. It’s a man’s duty after all, and if he does not fulfil it, he is not a man, and if he is not a man, than he is nothing, really.

            Human life has seen many changes. From hunter and gatherer, to settler and agriculture, now even industrialisation – from roaming tribes to settler communities to ever growing cities. All these changes have impacted on us greatly, and archaeology has found what they consider evidence that humans in the past knew far more egalitarian values, no where near as stereo typical as we for quite a long time now have believed. The stereo typical roles, we now like to call ‘traditional’, where never defined to this extreme degree as we now define them. Archaeology is unearthing more and more evidence that women did play quite a considerable role even in warfare, and the further back in time we travel, the more we find of this. This is not me saying this, that’s science saying this. Many goddesses in different religions of old were depicted as warriors, not just females holding babies in their arms.

            It is due to the changes in our life styles, that changes to our social interactions occur, and as our life styles keep changing, so will these changes in interactions continuing. Currently we experience the extremely fast take-off of technology, in turn impacting hugely on our interactions. Mobile phones, internet.. even knew language is born from all of this.

            Feminism can be seen linked to industrialisation, and the change from agricultural community to city environment, and what we now call stereo typical traditional gender roles, themselves seem to have been a product of changes in our lifestyle/environment some point, thus meaning something was in place before these roles arose. Tribal warfare and nation warfare are hugely different, and it is especially since the rise of big army warfare, it appears, that men have been pushed into the role of the sole protectors, and thus the ones who are send to die on battlefields. Again, all of this researched and concluded not by me, but scientists.

            To me personally, what I have found, has shown to me that my own world view was not as true as I once considered it, and has been recently especially nudged by the men’s human rights movement, as I to my utter confusion was informed these men don’t wish to return to their ‘traditional’ stereo typical role. I was informed they felt it had been taken for granted that they carry all those burdens, and that they want women to realize all the privileges they have held for quite a long time now, with feminism having pushed for more and more, most of all empathizing female value, while destroying the value of men.

            Men have struggled under more and more burdens alone, due to changes in our lifestyles, while we females had our own lives as homemakers made easier and easier, spending more and more time on just consuming or getting obsessed with our looks. More and more women in the workforce are waking up to that feminism hasn’t done them a favour and want to return to the ‘traditional’ stereo type, not because it’s better for men as a whole, but because it’s better for women. Yet society has changed to the point where often a single earner is not enough now, thus many women are forced to remain in jobs, and many of them complain and whine that it’s all too hard for them, while the toughest and most dangerous jobs are still done by men. Same time unhappy women are given support through praise for being members of the work force, so even if they buckle under the burden, they still can feel good about themselves, all heroic and oh so amazing. Men on the other hand are taken for granted, they don’t receive praise at all, but instead have come to live in a climate where they find themselves besmeared by hate campaigns, and have to fear that tomorrow they either end accused of rape or that some woman they put their trust in, leaves him, and with her goes his financial life.

            No, there is nothing wrong with a man hitting the gym, to be physically active is important for our health, the same goes equally for women. What I do believe is wrong though, is to again force men to fulfil the expectation of being all Hollywood star muscled. We are seeing a massive shift towards objectifying men in advertising. This again puts pressure on men to perform dutifully, which btw is just as wrong for women. We are seeing eating disorders now in boys and girls, and while boys still lack behind, they certainly are beginning to catch up. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2014293/Manorexia-rise-Experts-blame-pressure-male-models-men-suffer-eating-disorders.html

            To me personally it is about trying to return to values before all this mess, but stereo typical gender roles, from what I have come to see, are not the answer either. They create their own pack of injustices, with mainly females benefiting from them, and some males, but as a whole I personally believe at least, we need to look at those human societies, where men and women shouldered burdens in more egalitarian ways. Not ‘equal’, the average woman can not match the average man in physical strength, but that should not mean for us females to just stand back and expect a man will carry everything, including us, through life.

            I represent for most parts the very ‘traditional’ stereo typical female, but through that also placed very firm stereo typical expectations on the male, now realizing that through that I put a male under pressures I had no right to put a man under by default. Yes, I fulfilled my part of the ‘traditional’ stereo typical set-up to the T, am even not against the veil, consider that, very happy with my ideal of being that sheltered little princess, hidden away, all cute and pretty, dancing and twirling as I do, serving my providing and protecting male, yet this isn’t what many males want, and they explained to me why, and I’d be selfish not to listen to them, as well as to just look away from what issues they face in this world.

            This is the reason I am trying to give support, because that’s what they are asking from us females, and after everything they have given to us, I’d feel rotten not to try and return, even though I got everything I need, due to a male, I am an heiress, I can live live my sheltered little princess existence, thanking daddy for all he has ever done for me and my mother in my heart, which I do, and I miss him beyond measure, but other men out there are still alive, and I don’t wish to ignore they are trampled on by feminism, nor do I wish to see them trampled on still in the future, because they are made to feel they have to be those masculine stereo typical men, or else they aren’t worthy of respect and love.

            We are all entitled to our views, I do not wish to belittle yours, nor am I saying these cultural stereo typical set-ups can’t work perfectly for couples where both involved thrive on them, but if they do not work for everyone, and some feel they are even damaging them, then I feel we have to consider their view on the matter too, and not just force our own preferences on them.

            And no, I did not mention my background to make myself sound important. If I had wished to feel important I’d have made use of my background in my life, but fame has never interested me, nor material riches, or I would have chosen different paths to the ones I did choose. Only reason I am stating this is to show that I am not speaking up for some gain. There is no gain for me in this, only stress and a lot of unpleasantry, as this conversation has shown. I miss nothing in my life, but I feel it’s important to not just think of my own self. That’s pretty much all that’s to it.

            All the best.

          • I became increasingly curious about your views, so I read through some of the entries on your profile you’d written on Return of Kings as well as AVFM (loathe to sound stalkerish). Indeed, we share a lot of the same views, but we also diverge very much when it comes to gender roles.

            I’m not forcing my gender roles on anybody–if anything, people like you are forcing your view of gender roles on me by telling me that what I believe are “stereotypes,” they aren’t useful to anyone, and “they don’t work for all people” and yada yada. I experience this sort of denigration from all sects of society, from SJWs, to cat ladies with pink hair, to fat women who cry and raise a big ole stink about slim models as they did with Protein World, to nasty old women at the office who lost their looks years ago and are old, homely and out of shape and make it a crusade against the entire world to hate women who aren’t.

            My blog is not intended to cater to a demographic of people who want to remain average and want to make excuses for being average instead of striving to be the best they can possibly be physically, mentally, intellectually and socially. There’s a reason why they are called “stereotypes” because they carry a ring of truth–not everyone can be Melania Trump or Leonardo DiCaprio, but there are actually people out there in existence who have the will to strive to achieve that level of excellence–that is my intended audience and the demographic I want to reach.

            I don’t write for your approval nor anyone else who wishes to denounce my views as not being applicable to their own mindset and life goals–I’m reaching out to people who are making it their life mission to achieve their own level of excellence. Excellence takes work, determination, and a willingness to strive to be the very best you can be. It isn’t my fault that the world in its current state embraces mediocrity and wears it as a badge of honor all bandaged up in feelgood narcissism and shattered egos–nor do I wish to personally ever adopt to that worldview.

            This blog will be about how to be pretty, how to have great hair, how to be physically fit, how to cook a great meal, how to be personable, sociable, feminine and charming as well as how to take care of your skin, nails, health and finances–as well as how to date and marry coveted, high status men who want to date highly feminine, beautiful women.

            This is a self-improvement blog, not a “misery attracts company” blog. I set the bar very high for myself, and my intended audience are those with like-minded goals.

            As I said, I’m not forcing my views on anybody. Nobody is being forced to read my blog or adapt to my mindset. But whether you agree with it or not, there are people out there just like me who DO want to learn what it means to be masculine and feminine. They are my audience, period.

          • And I wish you only the very best with it, and I mean that. Absolutely nothing wrong with it, and while we are stumbling into the future, all sorts of contributions are needed. We don’t have a set compass yet, but hopefully we will all together be able to form a better future after the evils of feminism have been dealt with.

            Sorry you took the word stereo type personal, it most certainly was not an attempt to force my view on you, but misunderstandings are ever so common, as our whole encounter proves, pretty much from the beginning.

            Anyway, ever so glad we were able to bring this to a positive close, and you checking up on my views did not sound ‘stalkerish’ to me at all, instead I rather feel honoured and happy you invested your personal time into that.

            As for fitness, dancing does wonders for me personally ^^ I got long medieval style dresses and love fairy type Irish music. Transports me right out of this insane world.

            Lots of love and all the best for your plans with your site, from Ireland!

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek1PWKvgDZE

          • Tooj

            Thanks for the news on what men want. Yes, there are those who wish to be just like feminists; more privilege with less work. But, for the most part the men I know wish to be who they are with all the expectations and roles. What we want is to be freaking appreciated for it rather than demonized or patronized by women who think they have us all sussed out. That along with a cold beer and a sammich.

          • Not sure where you think I gave you ‘news’ on what men want. Don’t think I ever spoke in ultimates. Individual humans have individual preferences, like for example your beer. Don’t think everyone likes beer, and when I meet people, I try ‘suss’ out what they as individuals prefer/are like. Never understood this whole men are like this and women are like that stuff. In the end we are humans, I always thought, with common needs and basic longings. Every thing past that turns into simply being individuals, but who knows, maybe I got that all wrong, something I constantly consider, that’s why I tend to use ‘I believe’, or ‘in my view’ a lot in my writing.

            Enjoy the beer and sammich.

          • Actually just realized, due to another discussion elsewhere, my view can end misunderstood. When I speak of ‘human’, I don’t speak of ‘genderless’. I love the differences of male and female, but what I do not like is the exploitations I see. To be able to get a man to do just about anything, is a huge power. I can appreciate a man doing all he does, but that’s not enough. I need to also make sure I never abuse the power I hold. That to me is my human duty to a fellow human – to show respect and care.

            I am very glad that you found a woman who treats you as a human. This to me is what matters, and I hope it will all go well for you in your life.

          • Tooj

            I believe then that we are talking about the same thing. When men speak of going to war, it is not to denigrate women. When it is appreciated in other arenas of life and given it’s due, it’s a sacrifice a man will make for his family and country. It is a reasoned choice; I mean choice in the true sense of the word.

            I believe it has become a “hot button topic” in this current MRA/Feminist fiasco because sacrifice is no longer appreciated and quite often is said to be the cause of all the ills in the world. Often said by the very ones who were advantaged by the sacrifices made. THIS, I believe, is why men take the stance that they do in this day and subject matter. Abuse of any other person creates resentment, we both know this. It matters not if it is gender, religion, country of origin or race.

            But I also believe that if it really comes down to it and a clash of cultures became violent and threatened our way of life, there would be many of those same men taking up the task.

          • Oh I am fully with you in this. Sacrifice is the ultimate giving, and the willingness to give is essential to being human. What I am worried about though and see everywhere these days, is that women have lost that willingness to give. For many women out there it is only about ‘how much must I give, to get the utmost back in return’. It’s a greed motivated giving, not a giving out of the understanding one’s human values. If I as a woman give appreciation solely so that the other keeps giving, that to me is wrong. I as a woman must be just as willing to sacrifice, when it is needed, to have my place among humanity, meaning among the values of decency, respect and showing care.

            And I have been there one New Year’s eve many years ago, when two refugee families came under attack by a drunken crowd (still lived in Germany back then). Vastly outnumbered, they stood alone against others who had lost all sense of what it means to be human, and it was the scariest moment of all my life, as that crowd was rallying for blood. But I am human, before being a dainty female, and it was my duty to turn myself into a shield against injustice and cruelty, and that’s what I did.

            To me, teaching women that they are exempt from sacrifice, opens the door to greed and no longer understanding what it means to be human, before being of one’s gender. Women of old still knew their human duty to their fellow humans, and were no less female for it. They gave happily and with pride. The positive pride of being a member of their human community, not the vanity pride of being a woman.

          • gizzard of oz

            ‘reasoned choice’ as long as your reasoning factors in that the large bloc of female votes may have brought about the conditions of the war.. for example, the potentially upcoming race war.

          • Tooj

            Yes, and a reasoned choice will follow when that war begins. You seem to speaking more of prevention of the conditions which is an entirely different thing than what you do when faced with the reality present.

          • gizzard of oz

            Great comment. I’ve seen many marriages fall apart because of the sudden pressure placed on men, and it could all be prevented with forthright discussions of expectations before they find themselves knee-deep in the quagmires.

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  • Gary Murphy

    Good article in the context of what you have to say. Although I must confess very strong skepticism towards the article on the siege of Wiensberg. The nobility of Europe at that time were playing a very dirty game with the Papacy in setting up their own people for losses in war. It was always kingdom vs kingdom, but the Royals have and always will be inbred bastards.The warring aristocracy were almost always 1st or 2nd cousins who were really at war with the intent of further subduing their own subjects. The only way these women negotiated a treaty is if they were themselves members of the aristocracy. And if they were they certainly didn’t risk their lives. The Knights Templar dominated Europe at that time on behalf of the Vatican, and the Templars were almost exclusively the aristocracy from the old European Royal houses. There is no way they would have negotiated with women in a truce negotiation for starters, not in those times. Not unless, as i stated, if they were of blue blood. That changes everything, because if they were of blue blood it has been a tradition for as far back in history as I have looked (i.e. Ancient Babylon and Egypt) that Royals make sure they don’t have each other killed, on purpose or by accident.in wars between them. So in summary I don’t believe a word of Aine Hee von Sax’s drivel. It doesn’t add up at all with cultures customs and norms of the time dictating that there was no way these women were taken seriously unless they were aristocracy themselves, and if they were they certainly didn’t risk their lives like we are told.

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